I did it !!! Converted someone to Glock !!!

[Concealed 27]

So does anyone know if OLD Ammo can be inaccurate? I've never had an issue with CCI Blazer, and never had a problem with Remingtin UMC. I tool a Box of 9mm Remington UMC, and a Box of .40 CCI Blazer. Shot the Blazer first at 10 yard and it was all over the freakin place. So thinking it was me, I know my Ruger 9mm P89 is accurate WITH ME shooting it. It wasn't so wonderful either but not as bad as the CCI Blazer in the Glock23. Brought the targer in to 8 yards and had many strays, and no grouping worth mentioning.

Hell, I was beggining to think something was wrong with me, or my guns. So I finished off those boxes, then got to the cheap shit. Had a box of NEW .40 Tul Ammo that I was able to snag at Walmart. (Which I didn't know I wasn't supposed to be shooting in the range) At 8 yards with 15 round G22 mag, I was putting bullets thru shots and tore out a golf ball size hole in the paper with 1 stray about 4 inches off. Did it again at 10yards and no stray. So that was 30 rounds of the Tul. Then I did 2 mags of 10 round, practicing double tap, giving me a total of 10 doublt tap shots. All were in a group the size of a softball, and bullet hole over a bullet hole by an inch on each double tap.

Point is, That CCI Blazer and Rem UMC I was shooting like shit and all over the place is about 5 years old. Get this, the price on the box was $7.39 for CCI Blazer and $5.49 for the Rem UMC 9mm. So again, my question is, does OLD ammo get inaccurate?

BTW, other than being steel core and not being able to shoot the Tul Ammo at the range, I was very impressed with the accuracy and I really expected the gun to be filthy after 50 rounds of Tul through and it really wasn't all that bad. Cleaned it anyway of course. I will for sure buy Tul Ammo for plinking out at my dads property.

Of the 120 rounds even though I consider 50 of them wild rounds, and 60 rounds of 9mm thru the P89, not a single FTL, FTF or FTE. None for the Daughter in her New G23 either and she did 70 rounds thru it, and 30 thru her Taurus. None thru the SIL's Berreta's either. Probably 500 rounds between all of us.

Shelf Life- I found this on another site and posted for you to see for yourself what this gentleman thinks about your ?......Concealed 27

Modern smokeless powder and primers are chemically stable for 20 years or more if kept in the original manufacturer's packaging. US military ammunition made since WWII is quite stable when properly stored. During Desert Storm mechanized units of the US Army expended the last stocks of WWII dated cal. .50 linked API M8 and APIT M20. I am still using TW54 headstamped .30-'06 Ball M2 and ECC43 WWII-era .45 ACP hardball.

The only instances I have personally experienced where "shelf life" of commercial ammo was an issue occurred in paper cased shotshells and .22 rimfire. I had both 12-gr. and .410 shotshells which developed pinholes or case splits above the brass upon firing. I also have experienced .22 rimfire ammo from the 1960s in which age-hardened brass caused burst rims upon firing. The resulting gas leakage caused no damage to the gun, and other than being startled from a blast of "heat" in my face, I was not injured because I always wear glasses, as you should too!

Another shelf life factor on .22 ammo with greased bullets is that some bullet lubricants "dry out" and flake off. This exposes the lead to ambient air and causes it to oxidize. Oxidation changes the dimensions of the exposed bullet so that rounds may not chamber. Loss of lubrication causes bore leading and poor accuracy.

All is not lost if you are frugal and patient. I salvaged several thousand rounds of a prized 1967lot of paper-boxed Eley Tenex which would have cost over a thousand dollars to replace at current prices. This required painstakingly wiping each cartridge carefully with a cotton cleaning patch VERY lightly moistened with Mineral Oil, USP from the drug store, wiping again with a clean patch and then applying a VERY thin coat of Mobil lithium wheel bearing grease with my fingers and re-boxing it. This labor intensive procedure is not cost effective for cheap ammo which is easily replaced. I was delighted to find that my salvaged batch of Eley still grouped 3/4 inch for ten shots at 25 yards from my 1936 Walther Olympia target pistol and the same at 50 yards from my scoped Ruger M77/.22 and that I had saved roughly $1000 for my determined effort.

I have since decided that the only .22 ammo I will save for long term storage is CCI brand, having unplated bullets lubricated with clear paraffin wax. I have several thousand rounds of CCI Standard Velocity ammo bought in the early 1980s "before Green Tag" and its familiar black bullets coated in "jelly jar wax" shoot every bit as well today as the day I bought it. The folks at Lewison, ID explained to me then that they used paraffin wax with a 160-degree melting point. In their lubricating process bullets are hot-dipped after they come off the knurling and crimping station, and the coating covers the case mouth so that the cartridge is waterproofed.

This was is not the process used in other brands of .22 ammo. Winchester T22 and Federal Champion I bought about the same time, had bullets lubricated with a water-soluable wax emulsion. In this process bullets are washed in the lube prior to loading and allowed to dry before being assembled on the loading machine. Knurling of the bullet is done on the crimper. This results in the lubricant coating being non-continuous where it is disturbed by the knurling tool, and cartridges are not waterproof. After long storage their lube turned to a "flaky fuzz." I blasted them up in my old Remington 550-1 autoloader which "eats anything" and has some split cases and barrel leading, but nothing a good soak in Ed's Red wouldn't cure.

These days I buy only two kinds of .22 LR ammo, CCI Subsonic Hollowpoint for hunting loads and CCI Blazer high velocity for plinking. These ammos give me the best bang for the buck.

Not all CCI Blazer ammo has the black bullets coated in jelly jar wax. Since ATK Tech Systems bought CCI, Federal and Speer, some .22 Blazer ammo is loaded by Federal and has unplated bright lead bullets which have a clear, almost invisible dry lube on them which resembles Rooster Jacket. "Shiny bullet" Federal-ATK (Anoka, MN) Blazer .22 ammo shoots just was well as the "black bullet" CCI (Lewiston, ID) stuff, but I don't know its shelf life.

Ask me again in 25 years.

 

[hotrodpc]

Yes, it's her brand new Glock 23. It did fine the night before last with about 70 rounds thru it. Then the next day after she cleaned it from using it the night before, using different ammo she started having problems. She only field strip cleaned. The slide and barrel only, and I know she knows how to do that right. Not very hard to do. I asked if she over oiled it. Her husband looked it over and said NO, it's oiled just like the manual said to do. They watched a You Tube video too to make sure they did it right. My SIL says she might be limp wrisiting. I watched her the night before when I went, and she wasn't limp wristing with it though. I have a feeling it might not like the Estate Ammo. She didn't have any other ammo to try. I guess I should have asked if she tried both mags too, maybe she's having a mag failure. :shrug: I'll find out though.

 

[Concealed 27]

Yes, it's her brand new Glock 23. It did fine the night before last with about 70 rounds thru it. Then the next day after she cleaned it from using it the night before, using different ammo she started having problems. She only field strip cleaned. The slide and barrel only, and I know she knows how to do that right. Not very hard to do. I asked if she over oiled it. Her husband looked it over and said NO, it's oiled just like the manual said to do. They watched a You Tube video too to make sure they did it right. My SIL says she might be limp wrisiting. I watched her the night before when I went, and she wasn't limp wristing with it though. I have a feeling it might not like the Estate Ammo. She didn't have any other ammo to try. I guess I should have asked if she tried both mags too, maybe she's having a mag failure. :shrug: I'll find out though.

There is no such thing as "over oiling" in my book, I have seen on Tac TV Show where they thru an entire AK,AR rifles,Glock,and H&K Pistols into a tank filled with motor oil then fired each gun. They all fired perfectly, do I suggest doing this, NO. Glocks like to be dry... I use something called weapons sheild. Weapon Shield and Lithi-Shield Grease This stuff is great for glocks... I put it on the outside of the barrell pretty heavy, but light on rails and inside barrel after cleaning I run a cotton swab lightly thru inside of barrel........

 

[hotrodpc]

There is no such thing as "over oiling" in my book, I have seen on Tac TV Show where they thru an entire AK,AR rifles,Glock,and H&K Pistols into a tank filled with motor oil then fired each gun. They all fired perfectly, do I suggest doing this, NO. Glocks like to be dry... I use something called weapons sheild. Weapon Shield and Lithi-Shield Grease This stuff is great for glocks... I put it on the outside of the barrell pretty heavy, but light on rails and inside barrel after cleaning I run a cotton swab lightly thru inside of barrel........

ehhhhh, I think I'd have to disagree with you on that one and over oiling. I know in theory you'd think you were right. But in reality I think not. Reason being, with to much oil, it also tends to redistribute itself, especially as you're shooting and gets oil on parts that don't need and should not have oil. Example being you certainly don't want oil on your firing pin or striker. The other reason you don't want to much oil, is as your shooting, especially with dirty ammo, residue and burnt powder will go to the oil like a magnet. Now you have gunk balls of grit grinding in your actions and slide. Not much different than lubing your car's engine bearings with sand that is brought to them via the oil. That is my only problem with over oil. Being a gunk magnet, will wear your weapon out quicker. It can also make your weapon not shoot properly and affect accuracy when you get dirty and gunky enough to start causing parts to be hanging up, creating more friction slowing down the actions and clycling of the weapon. Sure, it takes a bit to collect that much junk, but with some ammo, it deosn't take long at all.

 

[Concealed 27]

ehhhhh, I think I'd have to disagree with you on that one and over oiling. I know in theory you'd think you were right. But in reality I think not. Reason being, with to much oil, it also tends to redistribute itself, especially as you're shooting and gets oil on parts that don't need and should not have oil. Example being you certainly don't want oil on your firing pin or striker. The other reason you don't want to much oil, is as your shooting, especially with dirty ammo, residue and burnt powder will go to the oil like a magnet. Now you have gunk balls of grit grinding in your actions and slide. Not much different than lubing your car's engine bearings with sand that is brought to them via the oil. That is my only problem with over oil. Being a gunk magnet, will wear your weapon out quicker. It can also make your weapon not shoot properly and affect accuracy when you get dirty and gunky enough to start causing parts to be hanging up, creating more friction slowing down the actions and clycling of the weapon. Sure, it takes a bit to collect that much junk, but with some ammo, it deosn't take long at all.

I was not suggesting that you do this, just stating that if you do over oil a little bit its not gonna hurt it. I think you took it as "over oiling" all the time that it is not good, And I agree. So maybe I will read what I send twice before posting..LOL Its all good, I sure she oiled it correctly... Ive had a few jams in my glocks but its always the mag spring or ammo as you said...

 

[hotrodpc]

I was not suggesting that you do this, just stating that if you do over oil a little bit its not gonna hurt it. I think you took it as "over oiling" all the time that it is not good, And I agree. So maybe I will read what I send twice before posting..LOL Its all good, I sure she oiled it correctly... Ive had a few jams in my glocks but its always the mag spring or ammo as you said...

I see what you're saying now.

My dad had a buddy whose gun was failing and my dad had me look at it for him. Opened it up, BINGO !!! Way to much oil, and the sludge in the thing was horrific. I asked him, when was the last time he cleaned it. :rofl: About 5 years ago but I oiled the piss out of it so I wouldn't have to since I don't shoot that often. :Stupid Me: He said he had probably only shot 300 rounds thru it in that 5 years. :chair: Amazingly, the barrel came clean, no pits or anything. That was an old cheap Taurus .45. My dad owns it now, and gives it to me about once a year to clean it even if he hasn't shot it which he usually doesn't.

 

[TScottW99]

As a Glock Armorer I can tell you what too much over oiling can do to certain areas. It takes me forever to get the gunk out of the firing pin channel and trigger group. You will end up with gunk there anyway but the over oil pistols have so much more. It just builds and collects, especially brass pieces.

 

[Concealed 27]

As a Glock Armorer I can tell you what too much over oiling can do to certain areas. It takes me forever to get the gunk out of the firing pin channel and trigger group. You will end up with gunk there anyway but the over oil pistols have so much more. It just builds and collects, especially brass pieces.

Thanks for shiming in, my firing pin on my G27 just stopped rattling so I know there is fouling in firing pin channel gonna clean tommrow... Concealed 27

 

[otasan]

FINALLY !!! After I told my daughter, DO NOT buy a Taurus PT140 (.40S&W).
She bought it anyway cuz it was "CUTE" and much cheaper than a Glock !!!


After shooting 200 rounds thru it, she and her husband could not get it apart. I finally figured out how to get it apart with this failure it had. Shavings everywhere in the slide and mechanisms. It's going in for Service to an Authorized service center then she's selling it.

So she said she have listened to Dad as usual !!! But hasn't been able to find a Glock 23, 27, 19 or 26. I wanted her to have a G23. I found her one at Academy this afternoon and made her race up there to get it.

She's now the proud owner of Glock 23 Gen 3 from Academy for $529.99 as of about 45 minutes ago.

Now she just called, her and her husband want me to go the range with them. Probably cuz the husband is out of 9mm and needs to borrow some of my stock pile. I happen to KNOW he's got 5 boxes on the way since we got together and made an online bulk buy, so I'm loaning him a box of 9mm and gonna go break in the daughters G23.

Great news - the G23 is a great gun!