What Legislation will Work?

[hotrodpc]

Are you saying do away with the private sale without a background check?

Yes. If that keeps the bans at bay then I would agree to that. What you own now is your business and no one elses. If you decide to sell than the buyer is subjected to a check. If you buy privately you are subjected.

It would cover your ass from unknowingly selling to a felon or unstable person. That firearm is now in play and it ownership is known until it is sold again.

I have several guns from Revolvers, ACP's, Shotguns in hunting and tactical, Semi Auto Rifles, Hunting Rifles, lots of plinkers, and I'd have to say, I'd be for it. At the same time, I think there can be exceptions. If you're passing one on down or onto a blood relative and YOU KNOW they are of sound mind and can legally own it, then that should be exempted, but you're taking responsibility for their actions, so if they go off on a shooting spree, then you're in trouble too, so to CYA, maybe you should consider the legal transfer and get the monkey off your back. With all the taxes we pay, there is no reason all county Sheriff departments can't do the BATF form and backgound check as a COURTESY for FREE to keep the public safe and ALLOW us to do the right thing without charges. I'll assure you guys, IT US doing the legal things and doing it right, and want to do it right. And also agree, if we give up something and go thru the hassles to keep bans at bay, then yes we should be willing.

I'm also for closing the gun show loop hole. With technology today, there is no reason we can't get an ATF form approved at a gun show in a matter of minutes. If it prevents gun bans, let's do it.


I want all the guns I can afford, but I don't want the bad guys having them. I don't want the mentally ill having them either.

At the same time I'm willing to go through some hoops to own a firearm, I realize it's for my own safety, my kids safety, and the safety of the public, but I also feel some things need to be lightened up. Example, Felons can't own firearms. WRONG !!! Martha Stewart is a felon !!! Do I have a fear of her hurting anyone with a firearm? NO, let the bitch own a damn gun. Felonies need to be classified, and non violent Felons ought to be able to own Firearms. Some speeding tickets are felonies. So you're doing 140mph up the Turnpike in your Vette at 3am and got caught. So what,you're not a hardened criminal.

 

[Silver-Bolt]

I have several guns from Revolvers, ACP's, Shotguns in hunting and tactical, Semi Auto Rifles, Hunting Rifles, lots of plinkers, and I'd have to say, I'd be for it. At the same time, I think there can be exceptions. If you're passing one on down or onto a blood relative and YOU KNOW they are of sound mind and can legally own it, then that should be exempted, but you're taking responsibility for their actions, so if they go off on a shooting spree, then you're in trouble too, so to CYA, maybe you should consider the legal transfer and get the monkey off your back. With all the taxes we pay, there is no reason all county Sheriff departments can't do the BATF form and backgound check as a COURTESY for FREE to keep the public safe and ALLOW us to do the right thing without charges. I'll assure you guys, IT US doing the legal things and doing it right, and want to do it right. And also agree, if we give up something and go thru the hassles to keep bans at bay, then yes we should be willing.

I'm also for closing the gun show loop hole. With technology today, there is no reason we can't get an ATF form approved at a gun show in a matter of minutes. If it prevents gun bans, let's do it.


I want all the guns I can afford, but I don't want the bad guys having them. I don't want the mentally ill having them either.

At the same time I'm willing to go through some hoops to own a firearm, I realize it's for my own safety, my kids safety, and the safety of the public, but I also feel some things need to be lightened up. Example, Felons can't own firearms. WRONG !!! Martha Stewart is a felon !!! Do I have a fear of her hurting anyone with a firearm? NO, let the bitch own a damn gun. Felonies need to be classified, and non violent Felons ought to be able to own Firearms. Some speeding tickets are felonies. So you're doing 140mph up the Turnpike in your Vette at 3am and got caught. So what,you're not a hardened criminal.

Well said. My biggest fear in all of this is a knee jerk political response rather than a well thought out plan that stands a chance of making a difference.

 

[oppo]

All the same laws apply at gun shows. There is no gun show loophole. They have done background checks at gun shows for years.

 

[DrkSide]

All the same laws apply at gun shows. There is no gun show loophole. They have done background checks at gun shows for years.

But the mass does not know that when they have been bombarded with the "gun show loophole" rhetoric. They simply don't understand that it is a private sale.

Edit: I am not against needing to have a background check on private sales. With that being said I am not for it either as it is just another "feel good" piece of legislation and in no way is enforceable. You cannot force two private citizens to go get a background check if you don't know that a gun is being sold.

 

[oppo]

I understand that many of the sheep have been trained to believe that the mythical gunshow loophole actually exists but I would hope members of a firearms related forum would help promote the truth instead of saying they are for closing the loophole as if it were a real thing. I don't mean to flame anyone but it got old a long time ago.

 

[SilvrSRT10]

What gets me is all this focus on Bushmaster, AR15, Assault Weapon when one wasn't used in the Sandy Hook shootings. As late as yesterday they were still flashing pictures of an AR15 on the screen and saying that this was the weapon used. It seems that once they get set on a story they won't let go no matter what new facts come to light. It's irresponsible reporting to a outright lie. It's what the government wants reported to further their cause. So no retraction is made.

 

[kwo51]

Do not give the Federal government any control over anything. They don't do a good job at breathing much less running this country. Remember who was running guns to Mexico( ATF) they should be abolished. Take some responsibility for your self. Don't sell a gun to some one you would not trust. Get a receipt with numbers on it .Evil will do evil no matter what laws it breaks. My bushmaster is useless the safe.

 

[hotrodpc]

All the same laws apply at gun shows. There is no gun show loophole. They have done background checks at gun shows for years.

I know for a fact, I've bought one at a Gun Show no check. The dealer said, I just traded for that one, haven't even done the paperwork yet, so if you want it, I'll give you a good deal to save me all the headache, and you won't have to wait around and do the ATF form. I didn't even like the gun but...... so I bought it.
I also think they are concerned of private citizen to private citizen sales. That, I've seen plenty of at gun shows.

 

[oppo]

I know for a fact, I've bought one at a Gun Show no check. The dealer said, I just traded for that one, haven't even done the paperwork yet, so if you want it, I'll give you a good deal to save me all the headache, and you won't have to wait around and do the ATF form. I didn't even like the gun but...... so I bought it.
I also think they are concerned of private citizen to private citizen sales. That, I've seen plenty of at gun shows.

What the dealer did was break the law and regardless of intent, you bought the gun illegally.

 

[hotrodpc]

What the dealer did was break the law and regardless of intent, you bought the gun illegally.

Could be. Guess I don't want to mention that very often then do I? So then I probably done something with it illegally afterwards. Maybe I should feel lucky the guy that ended up with it, had 2 major malfunctions with it and the 2nd time it went back in for warranty work, the gun was destroyed, and they guy had to go to an FFL to pick up a New one. So that's pretty much a dead issue now thankfully.

 

[kwo51]

In Florida private sale of a firearm does not require a check of any kind even if done at a gun show. I bought a gun from a retired police chief for my son. Not a loop hole ,a right.

 

[hotrodpc]

In Florida private sale of a firearm does not require a check of any kind even if done at a gun show. I bought a gun from a retired police chief for my son. Not a loop hole ,a right.

It may be a right, but personally I think it's stupid. So a guy who is Bi Polar, Skitzo or whatever the case may be, can walk into a gun store buy it, it with a box of ammo and in the parking lot, dust everyone on sight. NO, I'm pro gun as they come, but some things are just common fuggin sense.

Now I do believe, if you carry a valid CCW permit, there should be no waiting, and no BS. You've done been checked out, they got your prints and photo already, you were deemed sane and non criminal, so all they have to do is check your permit as still legal and valid, and there you go.

 

[hotrodpc]

Maybe we're winning part of this battle.

Gun control debate: Is an assault weapons ban out of reach?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gun-control-debate-assault-weapons-ban-reach-094810128.html

 

[kwo51]

Yes until you are diagnosed with a mental illness and unfit to own a firearm you can by one. No gun store, person to person sale. Gun show has no FFL requirement to sale, just a good place for ffl people to sale their guns. You don't have to have a drivers license to buy a car,but to drive it in florida you must have lic. and insurance. 1 in 3 don't.

 

[hotrodpc]

Yes until you are diagnosed with a mental illness and unfit to own a firearm you can by one. No gun store, person to person sale. Gun show has no FFL requirement to sale, just a good place for ffl people to sale their guns. You don't have to have a drivers license to buy a car,but to drive it in florida you must have lic. and insurance. 1 in 3 don't.

I misread your post. I came in to post that News article, and skimmed. I SAW, in FL no check of any kind required to buy.... Didn't see the private sale part before I commented. Guilty of skimming. We are that way too. No check for private sales. However, most sales are going to be someone you know, a buddy, a relative, so in that case, I'm all good. I have sold 2 to buddies/family that I KNOW are not criminals or off their rocker, and they own several anyway, so what's one more?
What is also common and probably not so good here. Guys will trade guns for vehicles on CL. A guy advertises a truck for sale. Will trade for things that go bang. And CL doesn't flag the ad. I guess because they don't come and say, I"ll trade for guns. Fireworks are also legal here too and sold year round, they too go bang, so I guess they can assume it's fireworks right? Yeah, it's convenient, but you really don't KNOW the person you're trading a gun or guns to for a vehicle.

 

[oppo]

The gun show makes no difference. A dealer has to do a background check and a private seller does not. Federal laws all still apply at gunshows. If we can't figure this out amongst ourselves, how do we expect to have any hope of educating the sheep?

 

[hotrodpc]

IMO, another thing needs to change and it will benefit the public. Anytime you can make things easier and cheaper to do the right thing, people are more likely to play along and do it right.

I recently sold a handgun on GB.com. Didn't realize it was going to be PITA to ship. USPS is the way to go, but unless you're an FFL dealer, they won't take it. From FFL to FFL. Also said to be Overnight ONLY. UPS is same way as far as MUST BE OVERNIGHT. That makes it like $80 to ship a fuggin handgun. Longguns, can go ground, but not handguns. So do I sell my next one on GB and try to collect $80 shipping to an FFL to do things right, or do I sell it locally and not have to deal with shipping? If I sell it locally, what the are the odds than an FFL is going to be involved? Slim to None !!!
No fuggin reason a person trying to do the right thing can't ship a damn handgun in a Flat Rate Priority mailbox for $12. Follow the rules, NO ammo to ship with it etc. I get that, but damn, making it to damn hard and expensive, people are more likely NOT to comply.

 

[oppo]

IMO, another thing needs to change and it will benefit the public. Anytime you can make things easier and cheaper to do the right thing, people are more likely to play along and do it right.

I recently sold a handgun on GB.com. Didn't realize it was going to be PITA to ship. USPS is the way to go, but unless you're an FFL dealer, they won't take it. From FFL to FFL. Also said to be Overnight ONLY. UPS is same way as far as MUST BE OVERNIGHT. That makes it like $80 to ship a fuggin handgun. Longguns, can go ground, but not handguns. So do I sell my next one on GB and try to collect $80 shipping to an FFL to do things right, or do I sell it locally and not have to deal with shipping? If I sell it locally, what the are the odds than an FFL is going to be involved? Slim to None !!!
No fuggin reason a person trying to do the right thing can't ship a damn handgun in a Flat Rate Priority mailbox for $12. Follow the rules, NO ammo to ship with it etc. I get that, but damn, making it to damn hard and expensive, people are more likely NOT to comply.

This, I agree with.

 

[kwo51]

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No changes are acceptable!!!!!!



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December 29, 2012 marked the 122nd Anniversary of the murder of 297 Sioux Indians at Wounded Knee Creek on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota. These 297 people, in their winter camp, were murdered by federal agents and members of the 7th Cavalry who had come to confiscate their firearms "for their own safety and protection". The slaughter began AFTER the majority of the Sioux had peacefully turned in their firearms. When the final round had flown, of the 297 dead or dying, two thirds (200) were women and children.

Around 40 members of the 7th Cavalry were killed, over half cut down by friendly fire from the Hotchkiss guns of their overzealous comrades-in-arms. Twenty members of the 7th Cavalry were deemed "National Heros" and awarded the Medal of Honor for their acts of cowardice.

We do not hear of Wounded Knee today. It is not mentioned in our history classes or books. What little does exist about Wounded Knee is normally the sanitized "Official Government Explanation" or the historically and factually inaccurate depictions of the events leading up to the massacre on the movie screen.

Wounded Knee was among the first federally backed gun confiscation attempts in United States history. It ended in the senseless murder of 297 people.

Before you jump on the emotionally charged bandwagon for gun-control, take a moment to reflect on the real purpose of the Second Amendment- The right of the people to take up arms in defense of themselves, their families, and property in the face of invading armies or an oppressive government. The argument that the Second Amendment only applies to hunting and target shooting is asinine. When the United States Constitution was drafted "hunting" was an everyday chore carried out by men and women to put meat on the table each night, and "target shooting" was an unheard of concept, musket balls were a precious commodity in the wilds of early America, and were certainly not wasted "target shooting". The Second Amendment was written by people who fled oppressive and tyrannical regimes in Europe, and refers to the right of American citizens to be armed for defense purposes should such tyranny rise in the United States.

As time goes on the average citizen in the United States continues to lose personal freedom or "liberty". Far too many times unjust bills are passed and signed into law under the guise of "for your safety" or "for protection" . The Patriot Act signed into law by G.W. Bush, then expanded and continued by Barack Obama is just one of many examples of American citizens being stripped of their rights and privacy for "safety". Now, the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is on the table, and will, most likely be taken away for "our safety".

Before any American citizen blindly accepts whatever new firearms legislation that is about to be doled out, they should stop and think about something for just one minute- Evil does exist in our world. It always has and always will. Throughout history evil people have committed evil acts. In the Bible one of the first stories is that of Cain killing Abel. We can not legislate "evil" into extinction. Good people will abide by the law, defective people will always find a way around it.

And another thought Evil exists all around us, but looking back at the historical record of the past 200 years across the globe, where is "evil" and "malevolence" most often found? In the hands of those with the power- governments. That greatest human tragedies on record and the largest loss of innocent human life can be attributed to governments. Who do governments target? "Scapegoats" and "enemies" within their own borders … but only after they have been disarmed to the point where they are no longer a threat. Ask any Native American, and they will tell you it was inferior technology and lack of arms that contributed to their demise. Ask any Armenian why it was so easy for the Turks to exterminate millions of them, and they will answer "We were disarmed before it happened". Ask any Jew what Hitler's first step prior to the mass murders of the Holocaust was- confiscation of firearms from the people.

Wounded Knee is the prime example of why the Second Amendment exists, and why we shouldn't be in such a hurry to surrender our Right to Bear Arms. Without the Second Amendment we have no right to defend ourselves and our families.

Author Unknown
Seeking attributi

 

[ViperJeff]

You can always secure a gun if you want. You are only responsible for your actions if you are negligent in securing them.

I guess i have 2 questions:

1. what legally constitutes negligence?

2. After someone has entered your home without permission, stolen property. Used said property in the commission of a crime... At what point do you hold that person criminally liable for there actions?



I should be able to leave my gun sitting on the coffee table in my living room in an empty house with the doors wide open

The answer question 1, in my eyes, the second someone enters my home without permission, any negligence on my part is vacated, neither I or the gun was committing a crime.

The answer to #2, the criminal is responsible for every action, every thought every second of every day (just like me). When a criminal breaks the law, they are instantly responsible for that action. It's not my fault for leaving my door open, or leaving the keys in my car. It's not a womans fault for being raped because of they way she dressed.

This country needs to get serious and stop using excuses as to why people commit crimes and just hold the criminal responsible

Period!