Voters may see guns at polling places

hotrodpc

Super Moderator
My point is very simple. According to the officer's own statement, full auto mp5's would never have been sold to civilians at all. Based on that, it is not reasonable to assume this gun would be full auto.

We ALL know 10/22's are NOT sold as full auto's right? So is not reasonable to ASSYOUME that 10/22's ARE NOT Full Automatic, when they are dressed up as pictured here, and when you can buy the book to do it yourself off of eBay for $11?

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Glocks aren't sold to LE or Civilians in Full Auto either. But they damn sure exist.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psQYbZSETsY[/ame]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psQYbZSETsY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnfteOmYMKM&feature=related
 

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oppo

Full Access Member
Actually, there are lots of legal 10/22's that are full auto. Besides, should everyone with a 10/22 have their firearm removed from them? I have seen a lot of 10/22's in person and not a single one was an auto. So, even though a civilian is much more likely to have an automatic 10/22 than an automatic MP5', it is still not reasonable to assume someone is committing a crime because they have a 10/22.

On the other hand, I have seen several people with marijuana in regular cigarettes. Is it reasonable to check everyone with cigarettes for marijuana? How about we search everyone who goes in to a smoke shop? It is far more likely that those people are, have, or will commit a crime. Heck, It is far more likely that someone who is at a park that prohibits alcohol and is drinking out of a styrofoam cup is committing a crime by drinking alcohol. They will then be committing another crime by getting behind the wheel of a vehicle.
 

oppo

Full Access Member
Btw, you can download the manual on converting it to select fire for free. I could make my shotgun full auto in about 10 minutes. Is it reasonable to check everyone with a semi-auto shotgun?
 

TheFuzz

Full Access Member
Again, you're completely over-simplifying something that's never quite that simple. None of what you're saying has anything to do with reasonable suspicion. You're just listing potential offenses. What's your point?

I'm going to agree to disagree at this point because this thread is making my brain hurt. :mfr_omg:

Edit: By the way, full auto machine guns, MP5s with auto sears included, are legally transferred all the time. I don't recall the officer in that video ever saying otherwise. I heard him say it wasn't likely due to being cost-prohibitive, but was still possible.
 
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SWSS

Full Access Member
Hey Fuzz, sometimes eng-rish aint under-stood...no matter how plain and clear the spoken word...
 

TacticalAdvantage

Full Access Member
Yes civilians can own automatics but only ones registered prior to 1986. Anything made since then, which the officer stated the weapon was, is only available to law enforcement or the military.

I don'y know where you get your ideas on what the laws are for Class III firearms. Noveske, DPMS, LWRCI , Colt, Sig Sauer....etc. all make fully automatic firearms today, and if you have the money and a class III stamp, any law abiding Citizen can buy one TODAY. At NO TIME in the video did the Officer EVER say that Civilians can only buy pre 1986 firearms, the words are nowhere in the video, the insinuation is nowhere in the video. If you look at the LWRCI website, They do have classIII firearms for sale... right NOW. So, before you start spouting off laws, get to know them.
 
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cce1302

Full Access Member
I don'y know where you get your ideas on what the laws are for Class III firearms. Noveske, DPMS, LWRCI , Colt, Sig Sauer....etc. all make fully automatic firearms today, and if you have the money and a class III stamp, any law abiding Citizen can buy one TODAY. At NO TIME in the video did the Officer EVER say that Civilians can only buy pre 1986 firearms, the words are nowhere in the video, the insinuation is nowhere in the video. If you look at the LWRCI website, They do have classIII firearms for sale... right NOW. So, before you start spouting off laws, get to know them.

:smiley-face-popcorn
 

hotrodpc

Super Moderator
Didn't we go through this already? :think:

:handshake:

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Doh !!! Wait !!! I don't Mod this forum.
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:rofl:
 

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TheFuzz

Full Access Member
I don'y know where you get your ideas on what the laws are for Class III firearms. Noveske, DPMS, LWRCI , Colt, Sig Sauer....etc. all make fully automatic firearms today, and if you have the money and a class III stamp, any law abiding Citizen can buy one TODAY. At NO TIME in the video did the Officer EVER say that Civilians can only buy pre 1986 firearms, the words are nowhere in the video, the insinuation is nowhere in the video. If you look at the LWRCI website, They do have classIII firearms for sale... right NOW. So, before you start spouting off laws, get to know them.

I don't mean to add fuel to the fire here, but this is out and out wrong. No civilian can purchase a newly produced fully automatic firearm. Like Oppo mentioned, the Hughes Amendment prohibits civilian ownership of any machine gun produced after 1986. Pre-86 firearms can be legally transferred via a class three stamp, but nothing produced from 1987 and up.

Just because the manufacturers make them, doesn't mean they are for civilian purchase. They are for military and LE purchase only.

No offense, but as a forum supporting vendor you should know better. Spreading that kind of misinformation is dangerous and can get someone into serious trouble.
 

ViperJeff

Administrator
This is the best I can do...

I've been researching this for a few months and this is the only site (currently) that I trust

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=a9c96a73b2e284a3e64e62e633e682b5&n=27y3.0.1.2.4&r=PART&ty=HTML#27:3.0.1.2.4.7.27.5

The 1986 law seems fairly clear to me that I can't own a machine gun produced after May 19, 1986. I still have a great deal to read and it's a continuing process. I haven't found any work around where I could legally possess a machine gun produced today.

Links are good, lets see them...

Lets use links to the law not some blogger, forum or news article. I enjoy facts I can lean on not what someone thinks

Vj
 

oppo

Full Access Member
Straight from the BATFE

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2002-5.html

Section 922(o) of Title 18, United States Code, makes it unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a machinegun, except a transfer to or by or under the authority of the United States or any department or agency thereof or a State or a department, agency, or political subdivision of; or any lawful transfer or lawful possession of a machinegun lawfully possessed before May 19, 1986.
 

ViperJeff

Administrator
And here is from what I found in the Utah Code, they pretty much follow the Federal code



Machine Guns

It is lawful to possess, purchase, or sell a machine gun that is legally registered and possessed in compliance with all federal laws and regulations.

Laws governing the use of concealed firearms differ from state to state. It is important to understand the laws to ensure that your actions are in compliance with Utah law.

Sources: 53-5-704 Division duties - Utah Code §§ 23-20-11 et seq., 24-2-17, 76-10-301, 76-10-501 et seq.


http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/FirearmLaws.html#Machine
 

cce1302

Full Access Member
Update to OP:
http://www.abc57.com/home/top-stories/Guns-allowed-at-the-polls-177358651.html

SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- During the primary election, a local man was not allowed to vote because he was carrying a permitted firearm. This year, he’ll be allowed to vote – and will be carrying his sidearm.

"You want everyone who is entitled to vote in St. Joseph County to have the opportunity to vote,” said Murray Winn, Republican member St. Joseph County Election Board.

The 1,400 poll workers were trained to make sure everything goes smoothly.

"Every year there is something new in state law that changes how the election happens,” said Winn.

Changes to state gun laws slipped through the cracks earlier this year and caused quite a problem.

"St. Joseph County was sued following the primary election because we did not let a voter into the polling place who was carrying a side arm,” said Winn.

That voter was Clay Edinger. At the time he didn't want his face shown.

"I asked for clarification, what law is it that prohibits me from doing so?" said Edinger in May 2012.

Workers couldn't give him an answer and turned to the election board.

"There was a call about that, so the election board did respond; Unfortunately, we responded incorrectly,” said Winn. “We were not aware of the law and so we were remiss in that we were not giving them the correct advice when they called us."

Ultimately, Edinger did not cast his vote in the primary election, but he brought the issue to light.

This fall, poll workers were retrained on how the new law works.

"Many of them were surprised. Many of them were wondering why the state legislature didn't carry the ordinance through to polling places,” said Winn.

Edinger said he will cast his vote in Tuesday presidential election and when he does, he will be wearing his gun on his hip.
 

Bigdaddy

Full Access Member
agreed, just because I can open carry in TN doesnt mean I plan to stroll through the polling place...I can see it now, I am on CNN or MSNBC being accused of using voter intimidation...investigated started by Obama's DOJ hunting dawgs...



I agree also, and if you do carry openly do expect to get some criticism and if you do well deal with it.
 

cce1302

Full Access Member
I agree also, and if you do carry openly do expect to get some criticism and if you do well deal with it.


I wouldn't sweat the criticism. Most of it comes from behind a keyboard anyway, and that's pretty easy to deal with.
 

Concealed 27

Full Access Member
In Florida even CC holders are banned from carrying in voting places. I Vote thru the mail and vote early... Im not saying that it does not happen because uneducated people will do so. When I enter a restriced firearms place I disarm and put into glovebox.....
 

kwo51

Full Access Member
Never disarm,leave the tool but keep the brain in gear. Atf is protecting themselves from common people.When guns are gone pitchforks, rakes, hoes become weapons History will repeat it self. Full auto guns is what got David Korash cooked. God help us all.
 

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