S. Carolina cop charged with murder

kwo51

Full Access Member
Stress filled action does not always work the way we think it should. Prayers for both families.
 

doublestack

New member
Think this officer will be doing some time.....and a lot of it. Think he will be the "poster child" for cops who kill w/o justification!
I wouldn't want to be a cop these days.....
 

SilvrSRT10

Super Moderator
CNN is playing the video over and over and over again. I believe they are trying to start another riot.

And yes, according to the video, the cop is toast. And should be. The victim was running away from him. IMO he'll be lucky if he doesn't get the death penalty.
 

kwo51

Full Access Member
Not supporting this cop yet. A fleeing felon can be stopped with lethal force. Broken tail light is a little less dangerous. There will be riots because home boy needs a new TV.
 

SilvrSRT10

Super Moderator
Not supporting this cop yet. A fleeing felon can be stopped with lethal force. Broken tail light is a little less dangerous. There will be riots because home boy needs a new TV.

This may be true. Specially for a known violent criminal. The warrant for this guy was failure to pay child support. I would like to think if I were the cop I'd refrain from shooting him in the back and call in an APB to look for him. He wasn't going far without his car.

I do have a question about why the guy was tasered in the first place. Had he been resisting arrest prior to the video and this got the cops adrenaline pumping? A little more to the story but not sure it justifies shooting him in the back.

Have to wait and see what the investigation comes up with.
 

Sgt. Rock

Full Access Member
By tomorrow I am sure Jackson and Sharpton will be in town with their bull horns once again stirring up the masses. The police chief said the officer in question has been fired but that is the least of his problems..I sure wouldn't want to be in his shoes right now.
 

Arckadian

Active member
I have been following this since I saw it yesterday morning, and I have heard that the Police department is charging him with murder and the death penalty was an option. I have seen the video and it is a pretty clear picture of what happened. I also heard this morning that even if the felon flees the cop does NOT have the right to use deadly force as the supreme court ruled on that years ago as being not an option. The cop could have chased him down, could have called back-up, hell could have let him go since he already had the car and could find his address from the records. Deadly force was not an option that the cop had in this instance and what he did was excessive force and uncalled for in something as minor as a routine traffic stop.
 

kwo51

Full Access Member
Not sure of that being ruled on in the SCOTUS. Will research later. Moving the taser way be the whole case.
 
Last edited:

kwo51

Full Access Member
Here is some research:

Whether an officer is permitted to use deadly force against an apparently fleeing felony suspect remains one of the most critical judgment decisions facing law enforcement officers. Title 42, section 1983 of the United States Code imposes civil liability on an individual who, acting under color of state law, deprives a citizen of, among other things, his or her federally guaranteed constitutional rights. The shooting or killing of a fleeing suspect is a “seizure” under the Fourth Amendment, and is therefore subject to constitutional complaints.

Under U.S. law, the “fleeing felon rule” has been limited to non-lethal force in most cases by Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985). In Garner, the Supreme Court held, “The Tennessee statute is unconstitutional insofar as it authorizes the use of deadly force against, as in this case, an apparently unarmed, nondangerous fleeing suspect; such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.” 471 U.S. at 11-12. The Court reasoned that “The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late or are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead.” Id. The Court affirmed the decision of the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals, which reasoned that the killing of a fleeing suspect is a “seizure” under the Fourth Amendment, and is therefore constitutional only if “reasonable.” The Tennessee statute failed as applied to this case because it did not adequately limit the use of deadly force by distinguishing between felonies of different magnitudes – “the facts, as found, did not justify the use of deadly force under the Fourth Amendment.” Officers cannot resort to deadly force unless they “have probable cause . . . to believe that the suspect has committed a felony and poses a threat to the safety of the officers or a danger to the community if left at large.” 471 U.S. at 5.

“Further, the reasonableness of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight; in other words, “[t]he calculus of reasonableness must embody allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second judgments -- in circumstances that are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving -- about the amount of force that is necessary in a particular situation.” Graham v. Connor, 490 U.S. 386, 396-97, 109 S. Ct. 1865, 104 L. Ed. 2d 443 (1989).

In Williams v. City of Grosse Pointe Park, 496 F.3d 482, 486 (6th Cir. Mich. 2007), the evidence fully supported the conclusion, as a matter of law, that an officer’s conduct was “objectively reasonable” at the time he fired his weapon. “On the evening of August 17, 2003, Officer Michael Miller and Sgt. James Hoshaw of the Grosse Pointe Park Police Department were on duty. While on duty, they learned of a citizen report that three individuals in a green Dodge Shadow were tampering with cars. Miller and Hoshaw came upon a green Dodge Shadow (the "Shadow"), driven by Williams and containing two other passengers. Miller and Hoshaw subsequently determined that the Shadow had been reported stolen. The video camera in Miller's police cruiser captured the events that followed. Miller and Hoshaw pursued the Shadow. At approximately 7:14 p.m., Hoshaw positioned his cruiser in front of the Shadow in order to block its path, while Miller's cruiser continued to approach from the rear. One of the passengers of the Shadow exited the car on foot. Williams then put the Shadow in reverse in an apparent effort to flee but found his egress blocked by Miller's cruiser. As it reversed, the Shadow collided with Miller's cruiser. Following the collision, Hoshaw exited his cruiser and, brandishing his weapon, directed an expletive toward Williams. Hoshaw approached the Shadow and stuck his gun in the driver's side window, pointing his weapon at Williams's head. Williams then accelerated in an effort to move around Hoshaw's cruiser and flee. In his attempt to navigate around the cruiser, Williams drove the Shadow over the curb and onto the sidewalk. Hoshaw, failing to release his grasp on the car, was knocked down as it accelerated. In the next instant, the video depicts Miller firing several rounds as the car moves out of view.” Id. at 484. According to the Court, “based on Williams' conduct, Officer Miller had probable cause to believe that Williams posed a threat of serious physical harm to Sgt. Hoshaw, himself, and to other citizens.” The Court continued, “viewed objectively, Williams’ conduct showed that he was not intimidated by the police presence, would not hesitate to deliberately use the vehicle as a weapon, and was intent on fleeing from the police, which in turn posed a threat to the public traveling on a major Detroit thoroughfare.” Id. at 486.

Deadly force was not deemed justified, however, even in cases where a suspect was armed where the suspect was not approaching the police or brandishing the weapon in a threatening manner. For instance, deadly force was held not justified where a suspect’s vehicle was “moving slowly and in a non-aggressive manner, could not have hit any of the officers, and was stationary at the time of the shooting.” Kirby v. Duva, 530 F.3d 475, 482 (6th Cir. 2008).

Also, in Smith v. Cupp, 430 F.3d 766, 774-75 (6th Cir. 2005), the Court held that suspect who had taken control of officer’s patrol car, although he was in possession of a dangerous weapon, “was not threatening the lives of those around him” because officer was never in the suspect’s line of flight and had already been passed by the car when he shot the suspect. On April 27, 2002, Deputy Sheriff Marty Dunn proceeded to arrest Glen Smith for making harassing telephone calls in Dunn’s presence. Pursuant to the arrest, Dunn advised Smith of his Miranda rights, cuffed Smith’s hands behind his back and put Smith in the back seat of Dunn’s police cruiser. Additionally, Dunn patted Smith down to be sure that he did not have any weapons or other contraband. Dunn left the engine running to provide air conditioning. Unfortunately, Dunn’s police cruiser was not equipped with a security partition separating the front seat from the back seat. When Dunn left the vehicle to talk to the tow truck driver, Richard Rutherford, Smith climbed into the front seat and took control of Dunn’s cruiser. Rutherford asserted that Dunn ran towards the moving patrol car with his firearm drawn and recalls thinking he “was fixing to watch Officer Dunn get run over.” Id. at 769. Rutherford claimed Smith was turning the patrol car to the left, but stated he was not sure whether Smith’s swerve to the left was for the purpose of redirecting the car at Dunn or following the roadway around the building and presumably out of the parking lot. Dunn claimed he and Rutherford were standing not more than a vehicle’s length from the patrol car’s original position and that Smith was clearly trying to run him and Rutherford over rather than attempting to leave the parking lot. Id. Dunn claimed Smith "rapidly accelerated directly at him” and Rutherford and fearing for his life and that of Mr. Rutherford, he “drew his gun and fired four times in rapid succession at Smith.” Id. According to Dunn, three of the shots hit the car, the fourth hit Smith “above the left ear,” and the patrol car “shot past [Officer] Dunn barely missing him and ran off the parking lot and collided with a tree.” Id. The autopsy report showed the bullet entered the back of Smith’s head, behind his ear, at a slightly back-to-front angle. Id. at 775. The Court noted in denying Dunn’s motion for summary judgment, “[T]hough Smith could have used the police cruiser to injure or kill Officer Dunn, under the plaintiffs’ version of the facts he was not doing so when Dunn shot him or even before Dunn shot him. Although Smith had possession of a dangerous “weapon,” he was not threatening the lives of those around him with it when he was fatally shot. This type of situation does not present “a perceived serious threat of physical harm to the officer or others in the area from the perspective of a reasonable officer.” Sample v. Bailey, 409 F.3d 689, 697 (6th Cir. 2005). A jury would therefore be entitled to determine that Officer Dunn’s use of force was unreasonable and accordingly unconstitutional.” Id. at 775.
 

Sgt. Rock

Full Access Member
Felt like I just went thru an episode of Law & Order..my opinion is that officer did not have probable cause to shoot the fleeing suspect. Where was the threat?..other than running away. I say that murder charge is justified.
 

kwo51

Full Access Member
Sgt. you may be right , but in this country we are still innocent until proven guilty by a jury of your peers!!
 

doublestack

New member
I'm sure the police office snapped mentally and let forth his frustration on the perp.....but, if the perp had done as he was told, he would still be alive. The police office needs to pay for his actions none the less.
I can only imagine how much shit police officers must deal with on any given day. Being lied to all day long, but yet remain under control during stressful/life threatening conditions. I certainly could not do it.
 

kwo51

Full Access Member
Now a witness is coming forward saying they saw a scuffle. Its not over until jackson sings.
 

SilvrSRT10

Super Moderator
The guy who videoed the shooting is scared for his life. Says he's hired private security to keep the cops from coming after him.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top