Recommandation for Home Protection

[J-Jones]

hi guys,

im a 30 year old male from europe (switzerland) and im looking for a gun to protect my home from housebreakers. in the past few month there where a couple of house breakings in my neighbourhood and i want to be "ready" if someone enters my house. i've already asked my question in a german forum, but to be honest i didnt get a answer by them. they told me guns are just for "sports" and not for self protection (maybe they forgot world war 2... lol.). i didnt got a answer at all... the thread is 4 pages long and just a "shitstorm".

thats why im asking here in a american forum, i hope you guys here can help me. below you will find my requirements, and it would be nice if you can recommend me a few models for my usage:

- the gun is just for home protection, i wont carry it around with me
- i prefer pistols instead of revolvers.
- i dont have alot of experience with weapons, but i will try some of them out next week. so it should be a "noob frendly" model.
- the gun should be 100% reliable!
- if i ever will use the gun, it will be inside of my house. i've read that a 9mm and bigger calibers can cause troubles when i use it inside a closed room (blindess / deaf).
- i need man stop power! its for self protection.
- if i ever will use it, it will be for short ranges (2 - 7 meters)
- i prefer handguns, no rifles.
- the gun should be semi automatic. full automatic is forbidden in my country and i guess its not the best thing for beginners .

i've informed me a bit and i read good things about the sig sauer p226 and the glock 17. but i also tought about a grid pistol.

so which pistol would you use if you are in my position? and which caliber would make the most sense to use inside of the house? i also tought about .22 LR caliber but im not sure if the man stop power is enough.

thanks for your help!

EDIT: and it would be nice if it is something with a bit "power" to shoot trough wooden doors.

 

[SilvrSRT10]

I know you said you'd prefer a pistol but....... a shotgun is your best home defense. If you can get a short barrel tactical shotgun you'll have a wide variety of loads you can put into it from bird shot to slugs. It certainly has the ability to go through doors and send downrange a number of projectiles as opposed to a single bullet with each shot. You're more likely to hit your target under a stressful situation.

You also don't want something so powerful that it goes through a number of walls or even into the next house if you live close to your neighbors. A Mossberg 500 pump shotgun is a reliable weapon and not too expensive. Take a look below at just some of the loads available. Depending on the laws of your land, you can set them up with pistol grips, lights, lasers and side saddles for additional shells. No I don't work for Mossberg. I just think that a shotgun is a great first gun and perfect for home defense.

But if you have to have a pistol then a Glock 17 (9mm) is a good choice.

 

[J-Jones]

thanks for your answer! well, the law here is a bit different. every weapon needs a registration and you cant buy accessiores like silencer. also full automatic weapons are forbidden (andi semi automatic shotguns). and to be honest, you are not allowed to shoot someone, even if he broke into your house (as far as i know you have a 'stand your ground' law in america, i prefer that! god bless america!). you are just allowed to shoot him, when he is threatening your life (if hes armed and pointing a gun on you).

so maybe the best thing for me would be to have rubber bullets as first shot, and the rest of the clip is filled with real ammo.

can you tell me what happends if you shoot with a shotgun in a closed room (deaf / blindness).

and how "powerfull" are these rubberbullets? powerfull enough to paralize a man if you shoot him from 2-5 meters distance?

because if i would kill someone who is breaking into my house, i would had to go to prison. thats why i prefer rubber bullets as first shot. the law here is really fucked up for this case... but in case of a 'home invasion' the robbers here in switzerland usually dont expect, that the house owner owns a gun. not many people here have one. mostly not even the robbers have firearms, they mostly come with knives and / or bats. i just want to be ready for the 'worst case'. and i definitely will visit a class to learn how to handle my weapon - even in stress situations and for better aiming.

EDIT: and what would you prefer if you would buy a shotgun. a pistol grip shotgun or a shotgun with a shaft?

EDIT 2: another question: short barrel or long barrel? i guess short barrel cause i use it for short distance?

thanks & greets

 

[SilvrSRT10]

For maneuvering in the confines of the house I would go with a short barrel pump shotgun with a pistol grip if it's allowed there. You can load it with "less than lethal" rounds such as a bean bag round. It's called "less than lethal" because if you should happen to catch someone just right with the round it might still kill them. But that's not what the intent of the round is.

Do a Youtube search on bean bag shotgun and view how they are used and their effectiveness.

Any gun fired in an area the size of a room will be very loud. And the muzzle flash can be blinding for a moment. But many have said that with your adrenaline pumping in a situation like that you don't even hear the shot.

I know a guy who had to pull the trigger on a intruder standing at the foot of his bead with a shotgun. He was able to get his .357 and shoot him. The bullet passed through the but of the shotgun and into the intruder. He dropped the shotgun and fell to the ground and crawled out of the house onto the front yard. He died of lead poisoning that night.

I asked the shooter if he remembers hearing the shot. He thought for a second and then realized he heard a thing. His adrenaline had taken over.

Now in a situation like that it was fortunate he had a pistol on the nightstand. A shotgun wouldn't have worked in that scenario. But usually, I think you'd hear someone breaking in and be able to get to your shotgun if it's right beside the bed.

IMO, because you don't have the Castle Doctrine (stand your ground) the bean bag shotgun is still the way to go. I'm not aware of any 9mm rubber bullets that would work in a semi auto.

 

[J-Jones]

great, thanks for your help. people in this forum at least understand my 'needs' and dont talk shit like "guns are just for sport issues" .

maybe rubber bullets arent the best thing to use inside of a house. i've read somewhere that they can rebound and hurt yourself if you fire them in a closed room.

how would you guys handle it? do you have your bullets already inside the shotgun, and the shotgun is just safed with the safety button beside your bed? or is this a no-go for saftey reasons? sorry for this stupid questions but im really new into this gun-thing. the only contact i had with guns was when they were pointed on me.

and are this "less than lethal" bullets good enough to stop / paralize someone?

i've seen some youtube reviews about several shotguns, and i think a remington 870 or a mossberg would be the best choice. i dont know if you guys know 'hickok45' on youtube? hes making some great reviews about several gun types. this one for example (i love watching him having REALLY FUN shooting around with his guns :rofl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vaa6wsw7Ts

and i prefer the safety button of the mossberg, cause im a "noob", so no accident can happen at all.

can you guys tell me the advantages and disadvantages in your opinion about mossberg and remington, and the different remington models (tactical, express)?

somewhere i read, when you "pump" (reaload) your remington, it really has a loud and scary sound, which already should make the most of the thiefes ran away .

and where you see the advantages and disadvantages of a pistol grip and a shaft?

thanks in advance

EDIT: i also have seen some shotguns with a pistolgrip and a shaft combined. what you guys think about them?

EDIT 2: seems that these bean bag bullets are not available in switzerland. i have to check if they are legal at all here - maybe i can order them from the internet.

 

[SilvrSRT10]

Another shotgun you might consider if it's legal for you to own there is the Keltec KSG. It is a short barreled shotgun but what makes it unique is it has two separate magazine tubes that you can choose between with the flip of a lever. This way you could keep the less than lethal on one side and the serious stuff on the other.

Pistol grip, full stock, combination is all personal preference and whether it's legal for you to own or not. Any combination is legal here in North Carolina but you can forget about it in New York or California. We too have some states with very strict gun laws. We just don't go there.

Here is the Keltec KSG. I know Hickok did a review on this and had a blast.
Most all pump shotguns have a distinct sound when racking a round in the chamber.
Sometimes it alone is enough to send an intruder in the other direction.

 

[J-Jones]

if the gun is not semi automatic, it is legal. the problem is that these bean bag bullets are not legal here (but the real ones are - the law is just stupid...). is there a alternative bullet? or would you use the "bird shot" as "less lethal" than other ammo? using rubber bullets in a closed room shouldnt be the smartes option .

edit: maybe a mod can move this thread to the "shotgun" area - as is has nothing to to with handguns anymore .

 

[SilvrSRT10]

The Keltec is a pump shotgun.

Your original question was about a home defense semi auto. So it's in the correct topic. I just re-directed you toward a shotgun. If others chime in they may suggest a handgun.

I like a shotgun for a first weapon but a handgun shouldn't be too far behind. You really should have at least one of each. Many of us here in the states change their guns around just for the heck of it.

Me..."Lets see, what should I carry today? The XD40 or my Glock 30?"

In many states we can carry our guns concealed as long as we've gone through the class and qualified.

 

[J-Jones]

yeah - that has some advantages - but also some disadavantages. if you got in some troubles on the street here in switzerland, you can be 99% sure that your enemy will not carry a gun (i just was once in a shooting. nor directly involved, but i was about 12 years old and 2 guys started shooting at them direct behind me). but usually you wont see stuff like this here - none of my friends ever had a experience as this.

yeah, i guess i will buy a glock 17 in a later step, i really like shotguns .

thanks for your help!

 

[SilvrSRT10]

I don't know what your idea is of what America is like but don't let our news paint a picture of the old West over here. It's not really like that. The liberal media has an anti gun agenda. Do we have shootings? Yeah, everyday. But the media only reports the shootings of different races. Actually, they only report when a white person shoots a black person. If a black person shoots a white person, it isn't news. If a black person shoots another black person, it isn't news.

There are same race shootings in Chicago very often. I heard up to 40 a weekend or something like that. Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. Most of the guns used in those shootings are illegally obtained. You see, criminals don't care about laws. But our government seems to think that more laws will fix the problem. What our government really wants to do is disarm the population. An unarmed people are easier to control. That's their real agenda.

Fortunately we still have pro gun states. NC has recently relaxed some regulations. For instance, I can now legally carry into a restaurant that serves alcohol as long as I don't drink. That was prohibited not long ago.

The mass shootings we have had are due to our mental health system not getting the information into the gun background system. These people should have been denied purchase of the guns they used. But my theory is they would have gotten their hands on a gun anyhow one way or another. We do need more coordination of information but not more gun laws.

 

[kwo51]

Not knowing the self defense laws or lack of I might suggest wasp spray. Stuff works well.

 

[Max]

@J-Jones:
I'm (rather) close to you (anti-gun germany), and I recently saw those two videos.
I quite like the channel, and got most of my gun-knowledge from there.
Maybe they help you along a bit:

5 Home Defense Guns:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfpMEin8D4c
5 Guns for a bump in the night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJPK915Uw0o

Also, if you look for less-lethal, have you considered a taser-pistol (if they're legal where you live).

Hope I could help,

Max

 

[Arckadian]

I dunno I have some handguns in my house as backups to home defense should I really need them, but my primary for home defense is a Remington 870 Tactical pump shotgun. I agree that the round really makes the difference, but a hand gun for home defense . . . I would have to say something with a less likely chance of going through the walls when you fire it. Nothing like taking out your neighbor because you missed and it went through a few walls. A smaller caliber handgun would have to be the primary choice I would think, depending on the walls in the building. As I only have any real experience with 9 mm guns and higher, I am not sure I can offer up a good solution, but weapons smaller than that might be ok. Personally, I would stick with the shotgun though. It is the far superior choice for in home personal defense.

 

[J-Jones]

thanks for your help guys! i really appreciate that, especially with the experience i made in the german forum .

tasers are illegal here. well, i read alot about shotguns, and i think it will be a mossberg 590 or a remington 870.

which of this 2 shotguns whould you guys prefer in a home defense scenario? where you see the advantages and disadvantages of this 2 models?

and would you use it with a pistol grip or a shaft? or maybe a combination of both like this:

thanks in advance!

 

[J-Jones]

thanks for your help guys! i really appreciate that, especially with the experience i made in the german forum .

tasers are illegal here.

i read alot about shotguns and i think i will get a mossberg 590 or a remington 870.

which of these 2 guns would you chose for a home defense scenario?

second question: pistol grip or shaft? or a combination like this:

thanks in advance!

 

[J-Jones]

sorry for doublepost, but i got another question:

which ammo would you use for home protection? i will load the first shot with non lethal ammo, but the second shot should be something that definitely STOP a man - this is for the worst case scenario. are birdshots powerfull enough?

thanks in advance!

 

[Arckadian]

My shotgun does not have the pistol grip on it, so I cannot so what the pros are for it, but I know that with the plain stock I feel more secure . . . might come from my time with my M-16, nice weapon, but without the buffer spring in it that would really suck to hold onto I think. Rock salt for a warning shot perhaps and then work your way up. I would experiment with the different ammo types and see what kind of damage to do to a simulation of your housing material. A slug would go through a lot, but even buckshot can cause a lot of damage. Shotguns are not my strong point, but if I wanted to know I would probably do something like that to find out how much stopping power I can safely use in the house without it going through the walls. I believe I overkill, again might have something to do with the military and how the Green Grass Grows . . . BLOOD DRILL SERGEANT BLOOD!!

 

[J-Jones]

somehow my first question didnt was posted at all, so i will repost it (a notification appeared that a admin has to review the post first, but this message is already here, so i guess i did something wrong?):

1.) i read alot about shotguns, and i guess i will buy a remington 870 or a mossberg 590. which model woudl you prefer for a home defense situation? if you would recommend me a total different shotgun, just mention it.

2.) pistol grip or shaft? or a combination of both like this: http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/760/760088.jpg

3.) which ammo would you use as non-lethal? the following are legal in switzerland: "Sellier & Bellot ALFA .380" or "CCI Shotshell 9 Para & .38 Special". rubber bullets are also legal but im sure they will rebound and could hurt myself.

4.) which ammo would you use as "second shot" (lethal). are bird shots "powerfull" enough?

thanks in advance! i really appreciate your help!

 

[J-Jones]

Shotguns are not my strong point, but if I wanted to know I would probably do something like that to find out how much stopping power I can safely use in the house without it going through the walls.

well i guess even slugs cant shoot trough walls in my house. my inner walls are 11 centimeters wich is 4.33071 inches. and they are stone walls.

cheers

 

[SilvrSRT10]

Both Remington and Mossberg are good weapons. Really can't go wrong with either. Try and get your hands on them. See how they feel to you. Do they have all the features you want? Then choose which one is closest to what you are looking for. It's when both are exactly what you want that the decision making gets difficult.