Gitmo Prisoner Exchange

[Jo6pak]

I'm not defending or advancing any agenda here, just want to put a few things here for perspective. And possibly playing a bit of "devils advocate"

First.
Who was it that said we don't negotiate with terrorists??
Oh yeah, it was Ronald Reagan.
Same president that presided over Iran-Contra....

Second.
The "terrorist leaders" that were released were Taliban officials, not battleground commanders and not Al Queda. Basically they were clerks in the pre-2002 Afghan government. And besides, if we are holding them as "prisoners of war" shouldn't we be letting them go anyway since we are ending our engagement in Afghanistan.
Did anyone here know that the Taliban offered to give up OBL in exchange for leaving them in place in Afghanistan? Who do you think told the CIA that he was in Tora Bora?
And since the Taliban is going to be at least a player in post occupation Afghanistan, we will have to deal with them in the future. Like it or not, that's the way it's going to be unless we keep thousands of troops there for another 12+ years.

Third.
Bergdahl is still an American soldier. Whether he is a deserter or not is up to a Court Martial to decide. He is innocent until proven guilty. He should have things to answer for, and if he is found to be a deserter or traitor he should pay the penalty...even if that means the firing squad.


You'll get no argument from me about the shady dealings and arrogance of the current executive branch. But governments have been "bending" the laws for a long time, it's not something invented by the Obama administration.
If Bergdahl had been beheaded, and the word got out that the administratoin had a chance to get him back, the same players that are now attacking the administration for getting him back would be attacking the executive fro doing not getting him out.
It's not that I am defending Obama, it's just that I think that all political officials are as corrupted and self-serving as he is.

 

[hotrodpc]

You're right, none of the 5 were battle groundsmen, they were just clerks. They weren't the clerks licking envelopes and going to the post office.

Do you think he should have been released???

 

[kwo51]

Yes you are defending Ostupid.JMHO

 

[SilvrSRT10]

I saw that same picture yesterday and it was the first one I thought of to defray the notion that the released Gitmo prisoners were harmless clerks.

 

[hotrodpc]

IMO, if all of his group is coming forward and saying he deserted, defected or whatever, and that 6 of our own were killed looking for him, then he's Guilty until proven Innocent.

Just like a child molester is. And what I mean by that, if you hear a guy has been molesting kids, been charged with it, and he's out on bond awaiting trial to be found guilty, are you going to be willing to let your kids or grandkids go have a sleep over at his house with is his kids??? He's innocent at this point right??? So why not let your kids go spend the night at his house??? Sorry, in my book, that guy is GUILTY without prejudice, until he's found INNOCENT.

 

[Sgt. Rock]

Yes there are still a lot of unanswered questions about Sgt. Bergdahl concerning his action leaving his post and mingling with the enemy. There are interviews with his former Army buddies, pretty much saying he deserted his post and even supplied information to the enemy. But might be months before the full investigation is finalized, so I try not to be judge and jury against Sgt. Bergdahl right now, for there is a lot of misinformation and speculation about it all. But still it's hard not to make a quick guilty as hell stance and throw him to the wolves. Plus I haven't even mentioned Obama skirting Congress about the exchange too..which itself can constitute a serious violation of the law.

 

[hotrodpc]

Your PLUS is the worst part, and that Jury is NOT out on that issue. Regardless of what do and don't know about Berghdel, What O'jackasses Administration with his permission is for certain wrong. Congress certainly should have been notified first and given the opportunity to at least discuss and/or vote on the issue. But of course, O knows it wouldn't have gone his way and the answer would have been NO, not worth the risk, we don't negotiate with terrorists. So even if Berghdel was a saint and a hero and all of the above, that was wrong.

 

[SAMSONLLC]

Jo6pak are you kidding me? You are right about one thing the Taliban told us where he was after the were captured and water boarded. Not exactly a negotiation. They want you dead. Even if you defend them they want you dead. If you think the five a@@holes that were released won't get back in the fight you diluted. And no they wouldn't be released necessarily when the war was over they are terrorists not soldiers. Soldiers don't cut the heads off of other soldiers and post it on the web for that persons family to see like its a trophy. All they did by releasing them was put a price on our GIs heads. Capture a soldier and we will trade for five of yours.
A soldier knows what he is signing up for. I knew. I could be killed captured wounded or imprisoned. It doesn't make it any easier when it happens but I can tell you no soldier that I know or served with would have traded their freedom for the freedom of 1 much less 5 terrorist that will almost certainly start plotting against the infidels as soon as they can That means you and me and our families and so on.


The necessary consequence of a man right to life is his right to self defense. -Ayn Rand

 

[kwo51]

UCMJ is not the same as being free to make your own choice.

 

[Silver-Bolt]

Side note, how does one get promoted from E-3 to E-5 while in custody of the enemy? Trivial detail to the bigger picture but one that has me wondering. When I was up for E-5 I had to be recommended by my immediate leadership who then pushed it to the company commander and 1st SGT, from there it went to Battalion HQ where I was interviewed by all of the Battalion 1st SGT's as well as the Battalion Sgt Major. Pass that then you are on a promotion list. If you have the required number of points for the specific MOS cut off you are then promoted. If not you remain on the list until you have enough points or the point cut off lowers.

 

[Sgt. Rock]

Captive/POW/MIA Entitlements:

Captive / POW / MIA Entitlements

Bergdahl is also eligible for $300K back pay but all of these depends on a final hearing in his case.

 

[SAMSONLLC]

Deserters get a bullet.


The necessary consequence of a man right to life is his right to self defense. -Ayn Rand

 

[kwo51]

Taliban now have modern US missiles | Conservative Byte
God given rights can't be taken away!!!! Our right to self preservation has been taken away by Obama here. We need protection from a rouge potus.

 

[hotrodpc]

Deserters get a bullet.


The necessary consequence of a man right to life is his right to self defense. -Ayn Rand

Defectors I say get a bullet, but Deserters, I'm a bit more sympathetic to. We can all say certain things and express our opinions about Deserters, but we don't know what was going on in his head. War isn't pretty and some can't handle it. He may have had a mental issue and felt he wasn't going to get help with it, or scared as hell, no telling. But Defector? A person you just flat jumped ship to defend the other side, NO, SNUFF'em !!! Put a bullet in his back as he's walking off. Even if he's deserter, he's till no hero, and to release 5 Tablecloth Towel Heads to get him back was senseless.

 

[Jo6pak]

playing the devil again

It's no secret that in late 2001, the Taliban offered to give up OBL if the American airstrikes were called off. There were conditions attached, but since the Bush administration's "with us or against us" attitude we didn't negotiate. How many lives and how many billions has that decision cost us?
I do find it interesting that the mention of them being terrorists and us torturing prisoners was in the same post.

There also seems to be a lot of assuming going on here.
1.Many assume that Bergdahl is a deserter and a traitor even though it has not been proven. The witnesses said that he "walked away with only a canteen and a compass." Was he actually seen by someone? Why didn't anyone try to stop him? He is an American soldier, and I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now. We simply don't have all the facts, these are questions that need to be answered by an investigation, and should he be found guilty in by court marshal he should pay for his crimes.

2. These Taliban leaders have been held for 12+ years. If they aren't prisoners of war, why are they not being tried? Have they been convicted of terrorism by any court? There is a photo of one of them with decapitated heads, why has he not been brought in front of a war-crimes tribunal?
Lots of talk of our "god given rights" being lost. Does not every human have the same rights? At least the right not to be held indefinitely without proof of wrongdoing?

The term "terrorist" gets thrown around a lot as justification for many things that are not just or right. Patroit Act, NSA eavesdropping, drone attacks on citizens of soviergn countries...etc. etc. It's a slippery slope, one of these days that "terrorist" finger may be pointed at you.

I, for one, will not quickly or lightly pass judgement until I have more FACTS.
And the only sure fact that I see in this incident is that the Obama administration has once again displayed it's arrogance and simply ignored the laws that they disagree with. I have no argument against the outrage on that point, but the fact is that it is nothing new from the executive branch.


As for the enemy having US made weapons. It's not really news either. A good friend of mine that served in both Iraq and Afghanistan (2006-2009) mentioned that they found all kinds of caches of US weapons; from grenades to TOW missiles. Some still in the original packaging.:boxed:

 

[hotrodpc]

That's no secret. IRAQ had buttloads of US weapons we gave them for the IRAN/IRAQ war.

 

[kwo51]

If we negotiate with terrorist ,there will be lots more of it to do. Obama does not care he is out of here in 2 years with a hefty retirement and protection for life.

 

[SAMSONLLC]

I got news for you Jo if berghdal had been found by our guys instead of traded for you would have seen Military justice. If his platoon mates say he deserted he deserted period.
No Johnny Cocrin
No 5 appeals
Possibly no trial.
You can be shot on site for desertion.
In ww11 there were guys on the boats who's only job was to shoot anyone who refused to exit on the beach or tried to jump overboard.

And as far as are they or aren't they terrorists really call them whatever you want. I don't care any body/group/religion/country/army that plots/conspires/threatens/acts out any act of violence against my country/military/soldiers/friends and family can rot in a hole forever. Given the choice I would play matchmaker.
And introduce all of them to their 70 virgins.



The necessary consequence of a man right to life is his right to self defense. -Ayn Rand

 

[SAMSONLLC]

Desertion
(of military personnel) to leave or run away from (service, duty, etc.) with the intention of never returning: Terrified of the approaching battle, he deserted his post just before dawn.


The necessary consequence of a man right to life is his right to self defense. -Ayn Rand

 

[Sgt. Rock]